Tata-Radia conversations leakage unfortunate but inevitable: PC

Source :4 DEC, 2010, 04.49AM IST,ET BUREAU 


 Home Minister P Chidambaram on Friday said leaks of taped conversations were unfortunate but inevitable, and that such things tend to happen when there’s a major scam. 

“See, what was recorded was conversation of a person suspected to have violated tax laws. We were recording only one end of the conversation but, as it happens, the other end was also recorded. But I am afraid that when there’s a major scam and a major tax violation and such conversations are recorded, things tend to get leaked. It is unfortunate but some of this is inevitable,” Mr Chidambaram told ET NOW, this paper’s sister channel, at the sidelines of an award function for small and medium enterprises, organised by the broadcaster and Indiamart.com. 

Earlier this week, industrialist Ratan Tata had appealed to the Supreme Court against the leaks of his conversation with lobbyist Niira Radia .


 The petition sought an inquiry into the leaks “which are not remotely connected with the purpose for which the investigating agencies had conducted the tapping”. 

Besides Mr Tata, Ms Radia’s conversations with bureaucrats, journalists and other businessmen that were recorded by the income-tax authorities in connection with their investigations also found their way to the media and into the public domain. 


The government subsequently ordered an investigation into the issue and the Central Board of Direct Taxes (CBDT) is now probing how the tapes got leaked. 

No need to worry 

Replying to a question about concerns about whether scams and government probes would vitiate the business environment in the country, Mr Chidambaram said India Inc need not be worried. 

“It’s sad that there are some bad patches but as Professor Bhagwati said yesterday (Thursday), ‘let’s not exaggerate corruption’ . It is an issue which must be addressed and anyone involved in corruption must be punished. 

But I don’t think you should allow yourself to be drowned in this cacophony that everything is corrupt and everybody is corrupt.”

The Raja-Radia Tapes

Source ;outlook India:| NOV 18, 2010

We have not edited or changed the style or spellings used in the transcripts submitted to court. 

Transcripts

22 May 2009, 09:48:51

Nira: Hello?

Raja: Raja here

Nira: Hi! I got a message from Barkha Dutt just now

Raja: Huh?

Nira: Barkha Dutt

Raja: What does she say?

Nira: She says… that she has been following up the story with Prime Minister’s Office tonight. In fact, she was the one who told me that Sonia Gandhi went there. She says that he has no problem with you, but he has a problem with Baalu

Raja: …but it has to be discussed with Leader

Nira: yeah, yeah… he has to discuss with the Leader. He has to tell…

Raja: It will be discussed in the morning… why unnecessarily Congress… [indiscernible] tie-up is going out

Nira: No, but then the question is about Azhagiri, no?

Raja: Huh?

Nira: Azhagiri’s people are saying: why is Maran getting Cabinet when he is such a senior leader himself?

Raja: That is different, but all these things must be explored and disclosed

Nira: That’s right. That’s right. I told her to get Congress…

Raja: At least, one to one, let it be disclosed to Leader

Nira: One to one?

Raja: One to one. Somebody should give a message, at least in a sealed cover, that we are having serious problems to Baalu

Nira: From Congress, right?

R: Yes

N: Okay, I’ll tell her. She is talking to Ahmed Patel, so I will talk to him

Raja: Let him [sic] call at least over phone: Sir, this is problem… we are having high regard, we are having no problem with Raja, but problem is Baalu. Tell.

Nira: Then how will you resolve the other problem?

Raja: Other problems we will take care of slowly, because now Leader comes down

Nira: Uh huh.

R: Don’t worry

N: Now Leader comes down to three, no?

Raja: Comes down for [sic] three…

Nira: Yeah

Raja: Even you are saying that Maran is not fit for infrastructure… he is having controversy… alright, let him be accommodated in the existing ministry… at least we will suggest

Nira: Maran?

Raja: Hmm… you suggest, you send a message

Nira: Uh, huh

Raja: Okay

Nira: Okay

***

May 22, 2009, 13:20:29

NIRA calling RAJA. Put on hold

RAJA: Tell me, Nira

NIRA: The thing is that the Congress has been totally confused as to who they need to speak to.

RAJA: Huh?

NIRA: Who they need to speak to in the DMK

RAJA: Ah… somebody should fly to Leader

NIRA: No, no… That is why, I am now… they’re going to speak to Kani in a little while, and then Kani is going to take them to Leader directly, and let Kani…

RAJA: That is good, that is good.

NIRA: Yeah? I have done… just told them that, because they’re completely confused who to talk to. Yeah?

RAJA: Let them talk to Kani

NIRA: Yeah, but Kani should also be sensible enough to say that she does not want anything for herself. No? I have told her that…

RAJA: Hmm

NIRA: …but you also make sure.

RAJA: No problem

NIRA: I told them. I told them that whatever…

RAJA: See, tell Kani: let her call Leader, (tell him) this is the problem, shall I bring the people?

NIRA: Yeah, because what they’re saying is that they will not give infrastructure to Baalu and Maran. They should say that to Leader directly, no?

RAJA: No problem. Look See… let them go along with Kani, and let them tell that we are having problem with these fellows

RAJA: That’s right. That’s what they have to do… they were confused… what happened is: for the UPA meeting, Maran went along… so they think Maran is the interlocutor, he is the person who’s going to talk, so there is this…

RAJA: Not at all. He came for assistance, that’s all

NIRA: No. I know, but you see this is a wrong message that has gone out, and they don’t know

[AUDIO ENDS]

May 23, 2009, 14:29:41

NIRA: Raja how are you?

RAJA: Haan, What she is telling, Kani is telling?

NIRA: She’s telling that she’s okay about it. She has no problem…

RAJA: Hmm

NIRA: …but the only thing is that somebody has to go talk to Azhagiri, which you have to do.

RAJA: Hmm

NIRA: And tell him how Maranhas gone and told…

RAJA: Haan, I already spoke with him, I already spoke with him…

NIRA: You told him what he has told the Congress leaders in Delhi?

RAJA: I know. So who planted in the minds of the Congress saying that Azhagiri doesn’t know English… I know…

NIRA: No, no, no, no…. Not only that. Not only that. That he and Stalin tomorrow will be the only ones left to run the party because the old man is senile and he is not going to be around any longer, and therefore Congress will be happy doing business with him because it will be him… him eventually, and he controls Stalin.

RAJA: Hmm…

NIRA: This is what he has said.

RAJA: Oh, ho, ho, ho!

NIRA: And that Azhagiri is criminal…

RAJA: Hmm…

NIRA: And he has not even studied more than 5^th standard.

RAJA: Oh…

NIRA: That’s the exact thing that he has told.

RAJA: Okay, okay

NIRA: You go and tell him this, no?

RAJA: No I shared with Azhagiri…Azhagiri in turn went to speak with Leader.

NIRA: No, but he has also said this… that in Delhi, I am the only one that you have to deal with eventually because, any case, Stalin will remain in the State

RAJA: I know, see, I know what type of propaganda he will manage…

***

May 24, 2009, 11:05:11

Nira: Hi!

Raja: Hello?

Nira: Hi!

Raja: Tell me.

Nira: Mr Raja?

Raja: Yes?

Nira: Nira

Raja: Tell me, Nira, anything?

Nira: I sent you an SMS. I’ve been speaking to Kani, so I just thought that… basically what they are saying is that you should be there.

Raja: Haan

Nira: Leader is generally is saying that you should be there, because of the, you know, the Dalit dispensation, all that, you know. The Dravidian, the party, and all that… saying that Leader, if it was left to him, he would have focused on the party first. This is unfortunate that his family is coming in the way and Cho Ramaswamy has given a favourable remark that it should be limited to this thing

Raja: Okay

Nira: But I’ve been talking to Kani, she spoke to me, she said, “No independent.” They are not giving independent… just now.

Raja: My case is clear, yes?

Nira: Yours is clear, yeah. Your case was cleared last night only

Raja: Okay

Nira: No, but what is happening with Daya?

Raja: What?

Nira: Daya?

Raja: Rest of the thing is… Textiles or Fertilisers

Nira: Not for Daya…

Raja: Either of them.

Nira: But Azhagiri or Daya? Only one can come, no?

Raja: No, two. Two can come.

Nira: Both?

Raju: Baalu will be the problem. I hope [sic]

Nira: I think that will be difficult for the Leader to justify three family members.

Raja: That is it, that is… (chuckles) everybody knows

Nira: No, no, she said that. Kani told me this last night, that’s what the father told her yesterday.

R: Oh

N: That for him to justify three family members will become very difficult. He recognises that problem.

Raja: What can you do? We’ll see, let us wait.

Nira: Yeah. I think he will have to relook at that. You’re all meeting him individually now? Or the meeting is still going on?

Raja: Not at all, not at all.

Nira: Narayanan’s meeting is going on?

Raja: Narayanan’s meeting is over. He has gone to Delhi, with cover.

Nira: He’s gone to?

Raja: He has gone to catch the flight… with cover.

Nira: Narayanan, yeah?

Raja: List, list…with the list, he has gone out.

Nira: He has gone out with the list, no?

Raja: I didn't know what is inside the cover.

Nira: And Kani? Is with father?

Raja: Maybe yes… maybe she knows.

Nira: I will call her now. And you are not there?

Raja: I am not yet there.

Nira: You’re not there? And Maran? Maran is there, no?

Raja: (He is) there, yes

Nira: Why you didn’t go?

Raja: I didn’t go.

Nira: Huh?

Raja: Alright… why should we go?

Nira: You should be there, no?

Raja: No problem… morning I met, and thereafter I came back for another work

Nira: And Azhagiri… he knows what Maran has been saying about him?

Raja: …it is known to Azhagiri.

Nira: It is, no?

Raja: It is known to Azhagiri, but he cannot talk with father… timely (sic) he will speak, only thing is, Maran will start the campaign against me…

N: Hmm

R: …that has to be taken care of

Nira: You have to fight differently.

R: Hmm… he may tell the press Prime Minister is coming again... this and that… spectrum…

Nira: No, no… we are handling… don’t worry. We have to take so much off, you know, even Congress had to make that statement, no? I spoke to Sunil Mittal…Did Chandoliya tell you?

Raja: I didn't know

Nira: I told him to stop. I told him, it doesn’t help…

Raja: Hmm …tell Sunil Mittal, you have to work along with Raja for another five years. So, don’t …

Nira: I told him that. I told him that. But then you also have to distance yourself from Anil. You must be neutral.

Raja: Ah that we can keep.